400 stock and modified class splitting axed!!!

[cappa]

Francis,
I've just read the Sandringham news letter and can't believe that a decision has been made to go back to an all in one 400 class.
I understand that 2 or 3 modified bikes, 'doesn't warrant class splitting' as it was put, but I think someone making this call has forgotten why the 'stock', 'modified' split was intoduced in the first place. I will remind those who have forgotten...
stock 400's produce around 55hp...
modified 400's can produce anything up to 80bhp...
they are not even close to the same in top speed performance and cost to race, thus why the split was introduced..
The idea was accepted with open arms, a/ to make it fare for all 400 racers and b/ to keep the 400's cheap for those who want to race and have a chance to win, without the huge budget!
Not everyone would agree with me of course, but I'm sure we would all agree that the split did stop the crap flying around regarding this issue..
I have a better idea, if there are only 2 or 3 modified bikes turning up to race then enter them into pre modern and keep the 400's 'stock', cheap and over all, in good numbers at the track!!!
The class has improved since the introduction of the class split, however, I fear this will only filter down to other club rounds etc and we will be back to square one. That is a decline in 400s numbers..
Cheers Cappa.

[JasonL]

Cappa, I guess the catch there is that the 400's are eligible for Pre Modern anyway, and the push has been on to get more rides per bike per meet to encourage entries (which paradoxically as you suggest might result in less). I take your point though - I'm now unsure if my bike is modified or not - I believed it was and entered accordingly in the recent hartwell rnd, but the 400 scrutineer deemed it stock and that's where my results are listed. Certainly, it seemed on a par with the other 'stock' 400's and some of the modified bikes were in another league. Do you know offhand if Hartwell follow the same criteria for 400 rules as listed on this site?? And is this change just for Interclub or Vic RR aswell???

[zulujack]

Is this for real? If it is I'll be mightily P*SSED considering that I have just paid a sh*t load of money for a front running stock bike to enter the stock class when I could have bought one of the fastest modified 400s going for a fraction more. Its outragious TBH. I cannot afford to run a modified 400 and if I had known this sort of thing was on the cards I would have steered well clear of 400s. WTF comes up with all these bright ideas?

[oldmanmike]

Just a question of you guy's from someone looking in from outside....

Cappa posted that the information came from a Sandringham club newsletter........

Does this change relate to Interclub as a whole, or just Sandringham clubs', club championship ?
Or is it a ruling that affects the whole 400 class state/nation wide ??  By whom

Hope answers you get to the questions, help....

Mike.

[zulujack]

I sincerely hope it only affects Sandringham!

[cappa]

JasonL, yeah your right the 400s are premodern bikes but you do need to have two of them to enter into both classes... ZuluJack, I wouldn't worry about being on a stock bike, if you are a novice that is, because it won't be a huge disadvantage to you for the moment...
What I'm really pointing out here is that the whole idea of splitting the class was because people were bitching about Hp advantage and the solution was have either a Hp cap, which is hard to police and enforce, or a split class 'stock', 'modified', so that no one would be disadvantaged and everyone was able to race no matter what bike you owned or purchased and what budget you wanted to spend.
I just don't get it.... it was working! Maybe a pain in the arse for the clubs, but no one in 400s was bitching about guys turning up on 80Hp rockets and blowing everyone away.
I'm not effected this year as I've chosen to race the 600, but already the reality that $600 a weekend on tyres is all the more reason why the 400s should be encouraged to hang in there for a few more years to come yet, and lets face it, 30% more power for a modified bike, try a superbike competion with that much of a disparency... My guess is there wouldn't be one!
 

[Francis C]

This does not effect the Vic Titles. We will still run the two classes.

[zulujack]

Its not only that. Even if an 80Hp bike rider was doing similar lap times to a 55Hp bike rider, chances are he'd be able to easily overtake in a straight line only to slow down in the corners. I'm all for close racing, but 30% more power and 10K more spent over a season does not make it a fair contest and does not equate to entry level racing (which I thought 400s were supposed to be). An alternative, it it was one class, would be to adopt the stock class rules as the 400cc class rules, but then wasn't that pretty much the original intention of this class any way?

[Tod 11]

Oh dear,here we go again! 

The new split class solved a lot of the bitching and moaning that developed and infested the class when people who had the time,money and ability started developing the bikes to a point that made it impossible for the majority of the competitors to keep up,both on the track and in the workshop!

So is anyone able to answer the question as to who made this decision and why? Like Cappa said,it was working,and working well,all the hostilities seemed to be gone and everyone was happy.

There is already talk among competitors of giving the Interclub a miss if this new idea goes ahead!

Cappa i think you miss zulujack's point... he made the decision to get a stock bike based on the split stock/modified rule.He did this to give himself the best chance of getting the best results he could.Regardless of the fact that he might be a novice... you see he immediately has several bikes finishing ahead of him in the form of modified bikes if it goes back to a combined class.This moves him  a lot further down the finishing order.

[cappa]

Yeah, point taken Tod(pete)11.
I agree with you and Zulujack, if I were buying a bike to start racing in the 400's, I would have chosen a stock bike because of this exact reason and would probably feel the same way, even if I was racing at the back of the field or not... I have spoken to Terry Fox regarding this today and he agreed that it would seem to jeopardise what inroads has been made to even out the 400's and keep the numbers up.
Zulujack, I wouldn't worry too much for the moment.
Another point to make is that last year many of the modified bikes were racing the MRRDA etc and many of those rounds clashed with the interclub, therefore when people decide what series to enter they have made the decision to not race the interclub at all, leading to low modified bike numbers at each round.
Hartwell are pointing the 400's as stock and modified. It looks like the vic titles will be the same...
I think, great that the a/b 1st,2nd,3rd and c grade 1st,2nd,3rd is back but hey if there aint enough modified bike to point it seperate then the smart thing to do is to put them in the pre modern, don't disadvantage all the other 20 odd stock guys if you get one modified....if you were at the hartwell last weekend you would have seen with you own eyes the differance jack fox on the modified to tim podt on the stock vfr.... the bitching will be back and the class will be screwed... in other words if aint broke don't fix it!!!
 

[zulujack]

Spot on. Whether you are a novice or not. It is still a competition and if you are spending $1000s to get on the start line you want to at least know that you are competing to the best of your ability, in the hope that you will gradually improve and move up the order. I don't see how an uncompetitive bike will give you any confidence in this regard. I bought my 400 based on the fact that there is a Stock class. I have no interest in racing in an open class as I don't have the time/money/mechanical skill to do so. Just spoke to Bunty and they have definitely dropped the 2 classes. They can therefore get f*cked. I will not enter the interclub series out of protest.

[cappa]

zulujack, its a shame that you wont race the interclub, but thats just it, a few years back several top riders did the exact same thing, only they sold their bikes and haven't returned, all because of this huge disparency between machinery. I would do the hartwell rounds if you feel that strongly about it, with some luck they will wake up when the numbers of 400's at the interclub are low!
Last year it was, no 400's cross entering into the pre modern unless you had second bike, now its back to the rider with the most money is the winner... Good decision!!!

[zulujack]

Bunty's reasoning is that there are only 2 modified bikes and therefore no point to have a second class for them. To me that is like saying if there were only 2 Supersport bikes they should be competing in the Super Stock 600 class. Perhaps the reason that there are only 2 modified bikes is that everyone got the sh*ts up with the class being too open in the first place and the majority of people preferred the cheaper alternative? Well that's all gone out the window now. Its good that there is a separate C&D trophy, but not that great if people are starting off on super hot bikes along with people on stock bikes. I have rung Bunty and questioned this decision. Perhaps if the rest of you did the same they'll take notice? Is there any other way of escalating this? Should we not we not have a say seeing that we pay the entry fees? It will be very difficult going back to 2 classes after the first round so if you have an opinion on this now would be a good time to bring it to their attention.

[cappa]

Zulujack, I'm glad you called to express your displeasure.... I would also like to encourage others to do the same.
I plan to speak with Bunty this weekend at the Sandringham presentation on Sunday. As I said, fine, if the clubs don't want two split classes, then have stock as the 400 (formula3) class then. That would be better than just throwing every 400 together regardless of the type of 400 and going back to the old days. I hope that its sorted before P.I.

[susan]

The Preston Motorcycle Club has not been notified of any rule changes to the F400 classes for the IRRC rounds.
Our next business meeting is Tuesday 6th April, which is after the first round of the IRRC.
Time does not permit our members to discuss this proposed rule change before the first round of the IRRC.

Susan Edwards, Secretary, The Preston Motorcycle Club Incorporated